Gm ****

[jack flash uk]

Chrissay, i think you need to be made aware of this appalling service

yesterday i reported a suspected script idoc timer, he was killed by a red and we watched with a necro, no log out, no gathering of clothes, no res

when house changed to idoc a short time after, the ghost timed out

this was reported, i explained to the said GM what was happening, i got the canned response that is so often used now days, instead if any action

so the cheat has the fall time, and we watched another char script timing and it is now appant that there are 2 chars working together using script timers ghost cams etc

nothing was done even though it was obvoius to ALL what was happeneing, and it is happening again today


my guess is these are xshard chars as a group of us have never seen them before

anyway, my help requests are getting cancelled by the GM instead of them taking action

so EA Crissay, is this what you, or EA expect from GM's?

what is the point of having a help service if it is not acted upon?

can you just pls confirm that scripting is now legal so we can level the playing field,

why can't EA patch the game EVERYDAY with a small code to STOP the well known script programs from working

i must say the 2 weeks or so after SA came out were a real pleasure, as the scripters could not access game, why cant we have this 24/7

such a shame


my last help reply was a warning that if i continue to petition action may be used against me? WTF

i am not using abusive language to the GM i am just trying to get something done. there is no time to waste here, the house will turn in a few hours, and like yesterday the cheats will get away with it

if it is legal, man i could really do with this

a bot to stealth around and find the idocs, mark them
a bot to time the idoc fall time

while i am at work, sure yes please

if you cant beat them, join them

say the word EA Crissay.................

[Syrus of Gahd]

Sorry that this happened, Jack. I suspect that this thread will be moved to S&R before Chrissay has a chance to see it. However, this link serves well for addressing customer service concerns:

http://www.uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

You could also email her directly here: uocommunity@ea.com

Good luck. :-/

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Syrus of Gahd

Sorry that this happened, Jack. I suspect that this thread will be moved to S&R before Chrissay has a chance to see it. However, this link serves well for addressing customer service concerns:

http://www.uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

You could also email her directly here: uocommunity@ea.com

Good luck. :-/

great thanks


well i have a personal message already on stratics, best read that, some other method of keeping the complainer quiet i am sure, what you cant see cant hurt you etc............

[Petra Fyde]

I will remind everyone - Naming GM's in this way is not allowed. They can not post here to defend themselves.
Use the 'gm review' form and/or the email address Chrissay posted in the sticky at the top ( uocommunity@ea.com )

[Syrus of Gahd]

The GM Review process really seems to work. I've only had to use it once, but I was satisfied with the result. Give it a try.

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I will remind everyone - Naming GM's in this way is not allowed. They can not post here to defend themselves.
Use the 'gm review' form and/or the email address Chrissay posted in the sticky at the top ( uocommunity@ea.com )

Then edit his name then, the problem still remains no matter how much you try to hide it
he/she has no defence, completely useless and should be ashamed if that is "helping"

the cheats win and EA do sod all becuase it is ALWAYS messed up by those that get paid to sort it, or swept under the carpet here by the like of you

so how about we pretend all is rosy so EA Chrissay has nothing to do, the DEV's have nothing to do, the GM's continue to do nothing and the paying customers get stiffed some more

sounds good

[lols]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

yeaterday i reported a suspected script idoc timer, he was killed by a red and we watched with a necro, no log out, no gathering of clothes, no res

when house changed to idoc a short time after, the ghost timed out

wow.. you really think you 'caught' someone don't you..

I IDOC.. if I get killed checking time, I stay a ghost, no need to res, get killed, res get killed.. and I'll log out at the house dead and just log in early to res in the morning..

Not EVERYONE is cheating..

everyone is so quick to accuse others of cheating just because they could do things as "easy" as everyone else..

If I were the GM I would have sent a canned response too..

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by lols

wow.. you really think you 'caught' someone don't you..

I IDOC.. if I get killed checking time, I stay a ghost, no need to res, get killed, res get killed.. and I'll log out at the house dead and just log in early to res in the morning..

Not EVERYONE is cheating..

everyone is so quick to accuse others of cheating just because they could do things as "easy" as everyone else..

If I were the GM I would have sent a canned response too..

Your right, not everyone is cheating, but we know the tell tale signs, as do pvp speedhackers, or pot throwers etc

its all here reported and nothing gets done

800 idoc done when you know , you KNOW, not just me of course, but others think so too

2 "new" idocers that work like this, i am guessing have arrived from another shard

you dont do this sort of thing over night, and for 3 years in europa we know whos who

but thanks for your reply

[Maximus Neximus]

I get accused of speed hacking on a west coast shard... The people that accuse me are on the east coast. People are quick to blame scripters when they get beat or someone else does better.

[Viper09]

So you "caught" a "suspected" idoc scritper...

They got pked and they stayed there to watch the house. After it went idoc they timed out. I don't see anywhere here that actually proves they are a scritper. Maybe they simply decided to just watch the house instead of having to get killed again. This really is horrible proof for them being a scripter.

You paged and got a canned response. How do you know for sure that they didn't actually check on the player?

This really just sounds like someone over-reacting. Or really just mad that someone else found their decaying house, lmao.

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Viper09

So you "caught" a "suspected" idoc scritper...

They got pked and they stayed there to watch the house. After it went idoc they timed out. I don't see anywhere here that actually proves they are a scritper. Maybe they simply decided to just watch the house instead of having to get killed again. This really is horrible proof for them being a scripter.

You paged and got a canned response. How do you know for sure that they didn't actually check on the player?

This really just sounds like someone over-reacting. Or really just mad that someone else found their decaying house, lmao.

wrong, but thanks

[lols]

Originally Posted by Viper09

This really just sounds like someone over-reacting. Or really just mad that someone else found their decaying house, lmao.

it REALLY does.. my guild hits every IDOC on our shard, regardless of facet, and everyone accuses us of scripting and doing all kinds of crazy things.. fact is, we are good at running around, hovering over signs, recalling around to get times, it isn't rocket science.. there are a handful of us, we get the job done.. but people who don't have efficient systems in place always are quick to yell ''OMG CHEATERS!"

pfft... laaame

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I will remind everyone - Naming GM's in this way is not allowed. They can not post here to defend themselves.
Use the 'gm review' form and/or the email address Chrissay posted in the sticky at the top ( uocommunity@ea.com )

Just like to say, the GM's could post here IF EA allowed them too. But becuase of EA's stupid terms of employment (and overdeveloped sense of commericalism (sp)) they are prohibitied. I always thought Stratics was independant of the software houses but here time and time again Stratics and its staff prohibit naming and shaming useless EA staff members. So, when did Stratics get paid from the houses to enforce thier rules? Just a shame stratics is the unoffical offical forums for UO, somewhere with a bit of guts and dedication to the game would have been nice.

[/rant]

[H2O]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I will remind everyone - Naming GM's in this way is not allowed. They can not post here to defend themselves.
Use the 'gm review' form and/or the email address Chrissay posted in the sticky at the top ( uocommunity@ea.com )

GM reviews is a joke. All they ever send out is the exact same reply and it doesn't matter what it's about. Then again it is another GM that is looking into another GM who is their friend anyways. The person doing the review should never be another GM because of them begin friends.

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by lols

it REALLY does.. my guild hits every IDOC on our shard, regardless of facet, and everyone accuses us of scripting and doing all kinds of crazy things.. fact is, we are good at running around, hovering over signs, recalling around to get times, it isn't rocket science.. there are a handful of us, we get the job done.. but people who don't have efficient systems in place always are quick to yell ''OMG CHEATERS!"

pfft... laaame

can you please answer me this then

the house we are watching refreshed 20 mins ago and the ghost is still there timing?

you, as an honest player, and i have no reason to question or doubt that, would you still be there as a ghost looking at the sign?


like i said, i know what i am talking about

thanks

[R Traveler]

Ghosts allowed to check house signs for decay status? OMG its a cheat!

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by R Traveler

Ghosts allowed to check house signs for decay status? OMG its a cheat!

check above

[Winker]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I will remind everyone - Naming GM's in this way is not allowed. They can not post here to defend themselves.
Use the 'gm review' form and/or the email address Chrissay posted in the sticky at the top ( uocommunity@ea.com )

In that case you should not allow any player/anyone to be named just in case they cant defend them self &/or don’t read the boards.

But you don’t stick to this rule do you! You only up hold this when its a EA employee, which are not meant to have any sway here as stratics is meant to be a stand alone web site independent of EA or any other software house.

Name them and shame them I say. I would go further and stick them in stocks at the town centre on a Saturday and let people pelt them with rotten food for bad customer service like this.

[Petra Fyde]

Yes, actually, we do stick to this rule, countless times we have removed posts naming people as hackers or scammers and issued warnings or infractions for personal attacks.

It's a rule I'm very conscious of, having been a victim of someone slurring my character's name by deliberately copying it for a mining bot.

[Winker]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

It's a rule I'm very conscious of, having been a victim of someone slurring my character's name by deliberately copying it for a mining bot.

There is one now called PetraObjects mining right next to me now, funny eh!

When i objected about being named here on a stratics post to you a few weeks back you did not see it as being an insutlt to me, i had to pull you up on other board rules to get the post removed.

One rule for one and another rules for others i see.

[Petra Fyde]

No, or at least not intentionally, sometimes it's a judgement call, and I'm human, my judgement can be flawed just the same as anyone else's. I'm usually willing to take a second look at something though.
I do my best to be fair to all, it's not easy.
Look at it from both sides.
A calls B a name - A reports it, I try to decide 'is it a personal attack or just teasing?' If I decide 'yes' and move it B calls me a 'nazi' more often than not, if I decide 'no' and leave it 'A' declares I'm not doing my job.
On the other hand, A thinks it's perfectly ok to respond to B with a like, or worse, attack and objects if I remove both.

I, and most of my mods, are in a no win situation. We do our best.

[Restroom Cowboy]

Originally Posted by lols

it REALLY does.. my guild hits every IDOC on our shard, regardless of facet, and everyone accuses us of scripting and doing all kinds of crazy things.. fact is, we are good at running around, hovering over signs, recalling around to get times, it isn't rocket science.. there are a handful of us, we get the job done.. but people who don't have efficient systems in place always are quick to yell ''OMG CHEATERS!"

pfft... laaame

What is lame to me is people posting on an alt. account on uhall to express their disdain of others who do not agree with cheating.

[Winker]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

No, or at least not intentionally, sometimes it's a judgement call, and I'm human, my judgement can be flawed just the same as anyone else's. I'm usually willing to take a second look at something though.
I do my best to be fair to all, it's not easy.
Look at it from both sides.
A calls B a name - A reports it, I try to decide 'is it a personal attack or just teasing?' If I decide 'yes' and move it B calls me a 'nazi' more often than not, if I decide 'no' and leave it 'A' declares I'm not doing my job.
On the other hand, A thinks it's perfectly ok to respond to B with a like, or worse, attack and objects if I remove both.

I, and most of my mods, are in a no win situation. We do our best.

I cant argue with that i guess

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

No, or at least not intentionally, sometimes it's a judgement call, and I'm human, my judgement can be flawed just the same as anyone else's. I'm usually willing to take a second look at something though.
I do my best to be fair to all, it's not easy.
Look at it from both sides.
A calls B a name - A reports it, I try to decide 'is it a personal attack or just teasing?' If I decide 'yes' and move it B calls me a 'nazi' more often than not, if I decide 'no' and leave it 'A' declares I'm not doing my job.
On the other hand, A thinks it's perfectly ok to respond to B with a like, or worse, attack and objects if I remove both.

I, and most of my mods, are in a no win situation. We do our best.

Dosnt explain why Stratics is sticking up for EA and its Staff who obviously dont do thier job, dont know what customer service is and/or who simply couldnt give a rats ass!

No, personal insults etc should be moderated. But when you work for a company and your in its public eye... you SHOULD be named otherwise YOU are stopping OUR right of freespeech... Which this time is warrented as the Customer Service of EA and even more so the GM's of UO are USELESS.

So no, name and shame them! Otherwise your just as bad as EA which as you dont get paid by EA... makes you alot worse in my book.

Name the GM, make it public... get it sorted!

[Edit] - By no means do I infer any of the DEV team in this statement, they do an excellent job and they show thier obvious passion for UO. Its just a shame the Customer Service teams dont have even 10% of the same dedication.

[Connor_Graham]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

you SHOULD be named otherwise YOU are stopping OUR right of freespeech...

There's no such thing as free speech on a privately owned website.

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by Connor_Graham

There's no such thing as free speech on a privately owned website.

Just makes this all worthless then really and worth looking for a new unoffical/offical forum site.

[Connor_Graham]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

Just makes this all worthless then really and worth looking for a new unoffical/offical forum site.

There would still be no such thing as free speech as any site like that would still be privately owned. Unless you put up your own site, any site would have the right to moderate anything posted.

[Salivern_Diago]

Well I'm not going to argue, I know of several sites where freedom of speech is encouraged with the clause that personal attacks/direct insults are moderated.

As I said, staff in the public eye are expected to take flak... Ask anyone in the customer service industry.

[JL from Europa]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

Your right, not everyone is cheating, but we know the tell tale signs, as do pvp speedhackers, or pot throwers etc

its all here reported and nothing gets done

800 idoc done when you know , you KNOW, not just me of course, but others think so too

2 "new" idocers that work like this, i am guessing have arrived from another shard

you dont do this sort of thing over night, and for 3 years in europa we know whos who

but thanks for your reply

I used to do some heavy idocing before your time and only recently returned (not that it was me at the idoc yesterday) but I doubt you ever heard of me. I picked up my idoc addiction where I left off, did some idocs, got lucky and now I'm doing other things in UO but I'm sure I'll be doing idocs soon again. And yeah when I'm in Felucca and I get killed I leave my char logged in, go surf the web and check the housesign frequently, logging off when it's going idoc. When I was doing it several years ago I and my partner got accused of cheating several times, but in reality me and my partner had the plot placement target up and we just sit there behind our monitors in a Zen state staring mindlessly at the screen, ready to instantly place a plot when the house collapsed. At most of the idocs we got the exact time so it wasn't that much waiting involved, others just couldn't imagine we were that dedicated to the cause and assumed we scripted because the plot was placed right after the house collapsed.

This whole thread appears to me as "Someone else is doing idocs too where we were alone before and they're good, now we miss out on loot where we got a lot before so they must be removed from the game so we can have all the loot again!".

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by JL from Europa

I used to do some heavy idocing before your time and only recently returned (not that it was me at the idoc yesterday) but I doubt you ever heard of me. I picked up my idoc addiction where I left off, did some idocs, got lucky and now I'm doing other things in UO but I'm sure I'll be doing idocs soon again. And yeah when I'm in Felucca and I get killed I leave my char logged in, go surf the web and check the housesign frequently, logging off when it's going idoc. When I was doing it several years ago I and my partner got accused of cheating several times, but in reality me and my partner had the plot placement target up and we just sit there behind our monitors in a Zen state staring mindlessly at the screen, ready to instantly place a plot when the house collapsed. At most of the idocs we got the exact time so it wasn't that much waiting involved, others just couldn't imagine we were that dedicated to the cause and assumed we scripted because the plot was placed right after the house collapsed.

This whole thread appears to me as "Someone else is doing idocs too where we were alone before and they're good, now we miss out on loot where we got a lot before so they must be removed from the game so we can have all the loot again!".

Greetings,

just to stop you if i may, it is not about i want it all myself etc

i share locations and time with many others, there is a great friendship that i have enjoyed through the years, i am sure when i get to see you in game, my idoc parnter will know you

when we dont, and i mean 10+ players dont know someone and they act the way they do something is wrong

but i am RIGHT in my post, as the ghost was still there for 40 plus mins after it refrehsed, i know cos i went back to see, just to make sure "it was not me" being paranoid

and as you will agree, when you have bone,well, anything in game for 3 year you know when something is not right

i am happy to say i was prooved right, and yes the GM did nothing after i gave detailed info to him/her, to investigate

make sure you say hello if you start idocs and dump into me

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by R Traveler

Ghosts allowed to check house signs for decay status? OMG its a cheat!

If ghost cams are not a prob why have they been dealt with in Champ spawns?

also nope using a ghost to time an idoc is not illegal

but they did not leave a ghost, it became one and a necro had to look for it


BUT having a ghost cam in place nearly an hour AFTER the house has refreshed, ie SCRIPT to stop it timing out after 15mins of non activitly and SCRIPT to time the house is obviously illegal

if the "accused" are at the keyboard watching the house sign, WHY HAVE THEY NOT MOVED OFF?

cant wait to hear the possible answers to justify this one? dont tell me, they are manually turning in bowcraft quests at Heartwood on the other machine, while their other chars are watching the Malas Idoc signs

amazing what octopuses can do nowdays

[JL from Europa]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

Greetings,

just to stop you if i may, it is not about i want it all myself etc

Well you may but it's not going to change my opinion lol... if it's not about wanting it yourself then could you give me the IDOC stuff then? o/c you want it, that's why you idoc, no shame in saying so even if it means your argument loses strength.

Also, there are like several places in Felucca where there are people script mining. Sometimes I like to hunt them then they just stand there as a ghost for many hours, I'm pretty certain they are scripters. Why only report those scripters at idocs and not those mining? Because mining is about unlimited resources so it doesn't conflict with your interests while there is only 1 loot from an idoc which does conflict, right?

[Lady_Rachel]

Just a question.
In the original post you said the idoc'er was killed by a red.
But in your last post you said he was watching a Malas Idoc signs??
Did you mean a Fel idoc sign? Or was it Malas?

[Demonous]

why do GMs do literally nothing as opposed to years ago? i remember when they would suspend people for scamming and would just come down to talk sometimes and stick around a bit, they actually used to help people, now not only do they never show themselves but 90% of the time they send an automated response, the only time they don't is when someone is using foul language or someone needs a flaming head deed removed from their house... like seriously if thats all they do then they can't be busy at all, sometimes i wish i was a gm and show others how to do their job the right way, i would go out of my way to help people and i would go against the terms of service and retrieve lost or stollen items that a player may have taken from them because that is the most retarded policy in the world "we don't replace lost characters or items" upgrade your system and make it easier to track items and characters is all i can say to that

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by JL from Europa

Well you may but it's not going to change my opinion lol... if it's not about wanting it yourself then could you give me the IDOC stuff then? o/c you want it, that's why you idoc, no shame in saying so even if it means your argument loses strength.

Also, there are like several places in Felucca where there are people script mining. Sometimes I like to hunt them then they just stand there as a ghost for many hours, I'm pretty certain they are scripters. Why only report those scripters at idocs and not those mining? Because mining is about unlimited resources so it doesn't conflict with your interests while there is only 1 loot from an idoc which does conflict, right?

you inply that i want it myself, which is wrong, WE want it use it etc

i dont mine so i dont know where they are, but i do read about them

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Lady_Rachel

Just a question.
In the original post you said the idoc'er was killed by a red.
But in your last post you said he was watching a Malas Idoc signs??
Did you mean a Fel idoc sign? Or was it Malas?

both, they watch more than one at a time with several, hidden timers

[JL from Europa]

Thinking some more about it, since it will affect myself in the future, couldn't you just kill them, then when they are watching as a ghost just place bagballs or something else over the housesign to obscure it?

At least you'd force them to come back stealthing to remove it then you can kill them again

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Demonous

why do GMs do literally nothing as opposed to years ago? i remember when they would suspend people for scamming and would just come down to talk sometimes and stick around a bit, they actually used to help people, now not only do they never show themselves but 90% of the time they send an automated response, the only time they don't is when someone is using foul language or someone needs a flaming head deed removed from their house... like seriously if thats all they do then they can't be busy at all, sometimes i wish i was a gm and show others how to do their job the right way, i would go out of my way to help people and i would go against the terms of service and retrieve lost or stollen items that a player may have taken from them because that is the most retarded policy in the world "we don't replace lost characters or items" upgrade your system and make it easier to track items and characters is all i can say to that

ah those were the days, i remember a gm came to see me, to tell me off, anyway i was on horseback and left sharpish, only for the gm to keep up with me on foot, it was so funny, then i got b*llocked again for fleeing

when a gm turned up a WBB i remember the crowds nosing in to see what was going on

funny times

[Warpig Inc]

Reporting script miner and jacker with day after day reporting gets same inactions. String of canned we will check into it followed by threats to bann your account for their lacking. At the time it was go ahead and bann two 11+ year accounts.............I need the extra Holdem cash.

On LS on avatar isle there are two houses next to each other still Draconi burning. Ya they got one multi account guy. Took what a week before the other hacks crawled back from under their rocks. This kind of BS drove me out of retirement and back to work. For something to do. So now I can afford to pay for something I don't do.

Time I do play is shuffling around stuff and tossing treasures into the abyss so I can shut down a 5th account. Guess I'll go to work now "It's good to be the boss"

[Siteswap]

Originally Posted by Connor_Graham

There would still be no such thing as free speech as any site like that would still be privately owned. Unless you put up your own site, any site would have the right to moderate anything posted.

The problem with Stratics however, which has always been a problem, is that it is in EA's back pocket. Stratics nods its head and jumps to EA's tune. The reason for this is that is scared ****less that EA will withdraw is goodwill and stop posting here. The outcome ... EA calls the tune on this site and we have sycophantic mods who love nothing more than to kiss EA butt.

So .. whereas other sites still make their own rules about free speech ... at least it isnt EA's rules as it is here on Stratics

[Petra Fyde]

And how would you define the function of a 'fan site'??
Constructive critisicm, politely worded will always be allowed. Insults and personal attacks will not. It's pretty easy really - keep a civil tongue in your head and you can post as much negativity as you feel is warranted.

[Siteswap]

So why the "no naming" rules and the "cant mention freeshards" rule or the "cant mention certain script program" rules ? I'll tell you why ... because EA is yanking your chain.

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by Siteswap

So why the "no naming" rules and the "cant mention freeshards" rule or the "cant mention certain script program" rules ? I'll tell you why ... because EA is yanking your chain.

Thats EXACTLY why...

Cant name GM's, Cant post about mod actions or inactions, cant post complaints etc etc etc..

All for the purpose of kissing EA's arse!

Following from what I said before, its a case of like it or lump it.. There is no-other site out there with the same amount of people registered.

Perhaps if enough people complained to the 'admins' then it might get changed, but I doubt it. We'ld have to pay them the same as EA...

Oh right, theres adverts everywhere.. we do that already!

[Edit] Oh ye I forgot... STRATICS... grow some balls

[Petra Fyde]

As I have already said - keep a civil tongue in your head and you can post negatively, if you feel it's warranted. Rude and boorish behaviour is not necessary to convey a point.

As for your final, vulgar and boorish comment. My husband would rather I didn't follow that advice, thank you.

[Siteswap]

But ... we cant post certain things that EA might not like. Such as the existance of freeshards. Or Script programs. Or GM names. And why? Because as stated above, Stratics is cowed by EA and wont post these things because EA does not allow them to, ergo.. EA calls the shots here.

[Salivern_Diago]

I didnt throw that at you Petra. I was throwing it at the Stratics corporate thinking. You have to do what you have to do.

Am I happy with the Stratics rules? No
Am I happy with the way GM's are? No
Do I agree with the no naming? No

Do I think Stratics is failing at being an independant site for all the MMO's online and being impartial? YES

I'm annoyed that due to the popularity of the site I'm forced to have to accept the way Stratics is.

So to Jack...
NAME the GM, they are in the customer service industry so its a case of TOUGH.

If the stratics rules dont allow it? Then Admins... CHANGE IT!

[Bobar]

As a long time Idocer I will give a little input here.

I have developed a system for timing over the years which means I also spend a LOT of time watching the houses go thru the decay cycle.

As part of my template I have obviously included Tracking to check for others doing the same. When watching for the turn time this gives me the opportunity to see whover else might be there.

Sometimes I visit the houses long before I expect them to turn and check at that time, often there will be a char there hidden. This means nothing, some people are prepared to wait however long it takes to get the actual turn time.

However the giveaway that a script is in operation is that AFTER the turn the hidden char REMAINS there, I have sometimes seen them there for hours after the turn time. Nobody can convince me that any idocer who has got the turn time is going to remain at the house simply for the excitement of staring at the sign for hours.

It is this self-evident evidence of scripting that Jack is complaining about.

Also with regard to the poster who wants to know the difference between script miners and script timers at idocs. The great majority of Idocers in my experience time houses the correct way e.g. they either visit the house regularly or camp it to get the time. This takes a LOT of time and cheats using a script get the time with no effort at all. At fall they get the same benefits as the players who invested time and effort. In my opinion this is totally wrong.

Reporting them has no positive outcome as far as I am aware so I can see where Jack is coming from when making this post.

I have posted about this type of scripting twice in the past albeit in a somewhat different vein, link below

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=142062

[Sara1]

Many years ago when the GMs were volunteers I had some great experiences with them. They would actually come and talk with you even about small problems. I was at an IDOC once, trying to get a little 7x7 spot and some kids with a drag came up and told the drag to kill me. It tried to, but I invised. The GM came and explained to them that they could not do this in the new Tram. The kids argued but the GM finally convienced them to move on. I got the spot in the jungle, btw. But, now, when someone is actually needing personal help, they get the canned responses. I hate this. I have reported scripters who were interfering with my game play...always the canned response. When I need something, like yesterday I couldn't find an object that was large enough to see even under books. I petitioned a GM to look in my bp, that maybe it was just not showing up on my screen. He sent the message to report it as a bug. It was not a bug. I finally logged out and in a few times, then found it. But, he was NO help at all. It is very frustrating!!

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by JL from Europa

Thinking some more about it, since it will affect myself in the future, couldn't you just kill them, then when they are watching as a ghost just place bagballs or something else over the housesign to obscure it?

At least you'd force them to come back stealthing to remove it then you can kill them again

would that block the house sign from a script? if they are using a script?

i suppose that is a way to determine whether they are scripting or actually at the keyboard browsing website etc

[kelmo]

*smiles* Whose policies are we discussing in this thread?

Keep it on topic and be civil.

[Tazar]

Originally Posted by Siteswap

But ... we cant post certain things that EA might not like. Such as the existance of freeshards. Or Script programs. Or GM names. And why? Because as stated above, Stratics is cowed by EA and wont post these things because EA does not allow them to, ergo.. EA calls the shots here.

Regarding freeshards or scriping sites, the answer is very simple. We are a fan-site. We do what we do to support the community that plays the games we play. We support those games with our account fees just as you do.

Because we support the games and the community, we also support the rules of those games. We personally might not agree with those rules, but we do support them.

Freeshards and scripting sites are against the TOS of the game and as such are not supporting the game - but instead are leaching from it. We do not support them. It's that simple and it's not going to change.

[Harb]

There is no reason to ever "blame" an individual GM, or for that matter the support staff in general, for failure to take action on something we report, no matter how certain we are that we're reporting is true/ correct. I know that sounds "dumb," let me elaborate.

When the hammer dupes began, I set about to report as often and accurately as possible to prompt support into finally ridding our shard of players known to the rest of us as cheaters. It didn't work. There was a lot of player speculation at the time as to why action wasn't being taken, but from what I could piece together from many conversations with a lot of folks, my best guess is that 1) support could only action a TOS or policy violation when observed or validated, 2) warnings tend to be issued before action, and 3) the TOS and internal policies were such that deviation outside set parameters would not occur based on EA legal (not part of our team or for that matter Mythic) review and policy. So an unseen dupe, an unseen script, an unseen anything really, would not be actioned. This despite the obvious in many cases.

I have no experience with IDOCs, but do not doubt in any way that Jack is absolutely correct, as these are higher payoff circumstances, unscrupulous players will cheat to take advantage. I can tell you it was evident at the Luna burn sites that folks there were cheating, despite any proof and regardless of no GM intervention. I checked several shards for Garth, and did check ours on Chessie with characters who track, and can say with high confidence that as higher payoff circumstances, we had inappropriate player behavior running rampant.

Today on Chessie, one of the characters previously monitoring our Luna burn 24/ 7, continues to wait at the Doom painting, scripting away, 24/ 7. Probably has done so for years, but my knowledge "only" goes back to April 20, 2009, when we began monitoring and observing. And again, support won't action the player. The problem is twofold, 1) TOS/ policy, and 2) lack of decisiveness in policy by the highest leadership on our team (in other words, don't blame the "team" either, this is one man). In this case specifically, the only action/ input the player will ever make is to steal the paiting, so unless for that brief moment in a four month span, support can observe and determine an invalid input (unlikely), this player will be rewarded and face no adverse action.

The bottom line is that our "problem" as players is behavior that shouldn't be tolerated but is, and leadership that accepts it. With a change at the top of our team, or even a change of view by current leadership, I'm not sure they can get major changes through EA legal. But there is no excuse for not trying. Just please bear in mind, this is in no way the fault of the GMs or support staff - at least as best I can determine, for what thats worth!

[Salivern_Diago]

EA Legal may be the one at fault but GM's are the ones on the front line. Customer Service for ANY company should be priority but alas it is widely known EA's stance on thier paying customers is.. MUG!

Its happened time and time again, not only on UO but on virtually every online game they have. I'm not going to go into my work history etc but needless to say I have more than just a customer experiance of Customer Services. With that, I'm horrified at what passes as Customer Serivce by the GM's but not only that I've sacked people for the ignorance shown.

The fact EA accepts this (And most likely encourages it) is appalling. It may be that the UK as a whole demands more from Customer Services than the US, I dont know for sure. The GM's are the ones on the front line and I've had some amazing experiances (Just search my name on Stratics and you'll see) but also I've had some damn right useless CSR's/GM's.

But here's the kicker... EA as a corporate entity dosnt care what you or I want, it wont allow its employee's to post on any site in an offical sense though fear of termination of employment. EA's stance (as is popular with the bigger software houses) is minimal input/maximum profit. If they can get away without doing then they will becuase it means less training costs, less running costs and less manpower for x profit.

What can we do about it? Well... Unless we want the game cancelled (In which case, stop paying for it) we have to basically (and to be blunt) bend over and take it!

Kinda makes those freeshards appealling and using 3rd party programs though sheer ignorance to EA tbh.

[kelmo]

Knock yourself out. We in the mean time, will play UO. If playing with pirates appeals to you... Watch your back.

[Harb]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

EA Legal may be the one at fault but GM's are the ones on the front line...

Sorry that's not what I'm trying to say, didn't mean to be confusing! EA Legal as a department, and the individuals comprising it, likely know nothing about our little world and are not chartered with customer service. That's a guess, but again one I make with high confidence. Our teams senior producer is the guy whom I believe bears full responsibility. You might be able to stretch the blame a little and include the senior developer if you believe there's a code issue involved - something I don't believe is the case though it could be. To me, it's leadership, knowledge, and direction, all of which orient me toward the same job position.

[Xalan Dementia]

Why would you want to be able to talk about freeshards and name script programs here? So the subscription rate to them would raise? Think about it, theres lots of people that post/read here that dont know the name of certain script/freeshard programs, if they found the name they would most likely look into them and we'd have another cheat to deal with. Freeshards are the most idiotic thing you could involve yourself with, seeings how once you log onto one the door to all your computers info is open to anyone running the shard that has basic hacking knowledge. As for naming gms, think about it, would you want someone on here ranting and dragging your name through the dirt and not be able to respond? Theres maybe 5 gms total (at least of all the calls ive had, only 5 different gm names seem to come up, on multi shards) the small gm staff has to deal with alot of nonsense calls on all the shards so I can understand them seemingly brushing players reports off. if you report a scripter, all the gm can do is interact with the person you think is scripting and see if they are unattended macroing, thats it, they cant take action on attended scripting because they cant prove it 100% and EA doesnt want to lose any accounts that are paying. Im sure all the good gms would like to be able to ban and humiliate scripters but daddy wont let em.

[Bobar]

Originally Posted by Xalan Dementia

I can understand them seemingly brushing players reports off. if you report a scripter, all the gm can do is interact with the person you think is scripting and see if they are unattended macroing, thats it, they cant take action on attended scripting because they cant prove it 100% and EA doesnt want to lose any accounts that are paying. Im sure all the good gms would like to be able to ban and humiliate scripters but daddy wont let em.

If they seriously wanted to take some action consider this :-

When a report is made of a possible scripter at an Idoc if a GM were to attend the player should be able to respond to the GM if spoken to.

Now I know we all leave the computer at various times and might not respond immediately however at idocs there is usually NO activity going on so unless the player returns within the usual time he would time out. If he still does not respond to a GM standing next to him after a few minutes you will as near as dammit have the proof you want. If he does NOT time out he is either present and refusing to respond or he has a script running which is keeping him logged in. I know which option my money would be on. At the very least if the GM got no response he could remove the character to jail which might be enough to deter future scripting.

I know EA supposedly has a policy of removing cheats from the game but having a policy and the will to do something are two different things entirely.

[Petra Fyde]

I won't be changing the Stratics rules because I understand and agree with the reason for those rules. Xalan Dementia is exactly right on the reason freeshards and script programs may not be discussed.
Xalan is also exactly right on the no naming policy.
It will not be changing.

[Harb]

Originally Posted by Bobar

...if a GM were to attend the player should be able to respond to the GM if spoken to...

I don't know anything about the scripts or how they perform, but from direct observations not only of the cases mentioned above but several others as well, whatever it is the GMs seem to do in terms of a query, seem to be addressed by the scripts themselves. Take resource scripters as an example. I've reported them often also, and every single time, the GMs do effectively action the offending players. I assume it's because an input is made without the player present, is detected as such, and IAW with guidelines and proceedures, poof, this type scripter is gone. An IDOC scripter or artifact scripter does not suffer the same fate, though they are as obvious to other players as the resource scripter is.

... unless the player returns within the usual time he would time out...

Again, I'm a victim of my own ignorance, but feel certain the time out issue is also addressed by the scripts themselves. The characters are also able to relog if the server goes down, and during routine maintenance. It may sound paranoid, but these folks seem far more advanced in technical competence and determination than many of us credit them with. The character I referred to above is either the most attentive character ever created, or a scumbag using a complex script or set of scripts is behind the curtain. I do suspect that with focused effort, and the direction and authority to pursue fully, support could do something about it. A little legal leeway may be required, again I'm ignorant. Maybe nothing more than saying "lets take a walk" compared to "are you there" might get the job done, who knows.

[Bobar]

Originally Posted by Harb

Again, I'm a victim of my own ignorance, but feel certain the time out issue is also addressed by the scripts themselves. The characters are also able to relog if the server goes down, and during routine maintenance..

This is the point I am making. I believe the scripts do indeed do these things and the fact that they do keep the scripter logged in is what should give them away. In proper gameplay a character HAS to be present at sometime to take an action to stop timing out.

During this period the presence of a GM would certainly be noticed by a player returning to the keyboard. He could then respond to him. Failure to respond would then be a certain indicator that failure to time out was negated by a script.

[Busters]

All i can say about this, is yes it does suck for the people who work for what they got and not use bots/scripts/etc. But, why complain about it? I mean honestly, do you think it will matter?? If it is that terrible and ea and everyone associated with ea is doing such a terrible job and make this game so bad then why play it?? If you went to a restaurant and got bad service and the food was terrible would you keep going back just to complain to everyone?? NO! So either deal with the fact that every game will have its flaws or just quit, tis as simple as that. To me this is not a huge deal, there are much bigger things that need to be taken care of before worrying about someone placing a house.

[Viper09]

Well, assuming it truly is an unattended ghost cam, this would give good cause to allowing the exorcism spell to work everywhere To make it so it doesn't affect those who are attended, make it so when it is casted a gump shows up giving you an option to not get teleported unless you click the button within 2 mins.

But really...it shouldn't really matter if it's just a rush to loot. If it's in fel, just kill them. In tram, tough luck unless you can block them somehow.

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Busters

All i can say about this, is yes it does suck for the people who work for what they got and not use bots/scripts/etc. But, why complain about it? I mean honestly, do you think it will matter?? If it is that terrible and ea and everyone associated with ea is doing such a terrible job and make this game so bad then why play it?? If you went to a restaurant and got bad service and the food was terrible would you keep going back just to complain to everyone?? NO! So either deal with the fact that every game will have its flaws or just quit, tis as simple as that. To me this is not a huge deal, there are much bigger things that need to be taken care of before worrying about someone placing a house.

someone pls catch the boomerang, you are way off there



we all have real life issues and we use games, like this to unwind, escape whatever you wish to call it
we do not expect to be exposed to exploitive a**holes here aswell, we see enough of them out there

BUT, as paying customer we DO expect to have the said a**holes dealt with


so you are saying i should play a game like say, fallout 3 that has a predetermined outcome and no 3rd party interaction, and give up a "game" i have played, trained, shared, invested so much time, man hours and MONEY in because i want to address the issue of SCRIPT CHEATS?

sorry cant do that, i do not accept the "sorry more than my jobs worth" attitude, i my profession (firefighter) i cannot, and would not adopt that kind of lifestyle,firstly the taxpayer,who pay my wages (like i contribute to EA staff wages, in a small way) in their moment of dire need will not have to even consider that i cannot be assed, and just as importantly, I cannot operate that way, so, if i choose to unwind here, in EA's care, i EXPECT a level of professionalism that my £23 approx (2 acct) PAYS FOR

it is a matter of pride, which is sadly lacking here

i enjoy this game immensely, when SA came out and the script programs, we all know them, we not "patched" was a real JOY and we CAN have this again, with little IT effort (i am told)

is this in anyway unclear?

or am i being ***ing idiot?

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Viper09

Well, assuming it truly is an unattended ghost cam, this would give good cause to allowing the exorcism spell to work everywhere To make it so it doesn't affect those who are attended, make it so when it is casted a gump shows up giving you an option to not get teleported unless you click the button within 2 mins.

But really...it shouldn't really matter if it's just a rush to loot. If it's in fel, just kill them. In tram, tough luck unless you can block them somehow.

on man i wish exocism would work!!!!

its almost as if there system works in the scripters favour, DRACONI do you own the script program we are not allowed to mention

right where is his facebook!
Tim, i am gonna ask you that right now!

[Busters]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

someone pls catch the boomerang, you are way off there



we all have real life issues and we use games, like this to unwind, escape whatever you wish to call it
we do not expect to be exposed to exploitive a**holes here aswell, we see enough of them out there

BUT, as paying customer we DO expect to have the said a**holes dealt with


so you are saying i should play a game like say, fallout 3 that has a predetermined outcome and no 3rd party interaction, and give up a "game" i have played, trained, shared, invested so much time, man hours and MONEY in because i want to address the issue of SCRIPT CHEATS?

sorry cant do that, i do not accept the "sorry more than my jobs worth" attitude, i my profession (firefighter) i cannot, and would not wish to accept to adopt that kind of lifestyle, so, if i choose to unwind here, in EA's care, i EXPECT a level of professionalism that my £23 approx (2 acct) PAYS FOR

is this in anyway unclear?

The gm's have been this way for how long and it is still being complained about? There are scripters everywhere, and always have been, it will never go away so you have to deal with it. Everyone has been dumped on at some point or another, it is part of playing with other people, there will always be those who take the easy way and those who do things the hard way. What i am saying is it will not change no matter how much you complain about it. The gm level of service has been down for quite some time and i doubt will get back to what it was long ago. My point is exactly what i stated before, i know you come here to unwind from the real world, but it is still just a game, if it is that upsetting that you don't get the level of care you think you should have then just quit.

[Viper09]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

on man i wish exocism would work!!!!

its almost as if there system works in the scripters favour, DRACONI do you own the script program we are not allowed to mention

right where is his facebook!
Tim, i am gonna ask you that right now!

Well, I'm sure Draconi has a "type" of script program. GM utility tool. Or whatever they call it.

[Harb]

Originally Posted by Busters

All i can say about this, is yes it does suck for the people who work for what they got and not use bots/scripts/etc. But, why complain about it? I mean honestly, do you think it will matter?? ...

I'll tell ya why it matters. I mentioned a scripting artifact thief above, that we've eyed for what, for almost 7 months now? I won't mention the name of the scripting character, but (crossing my fingers and hoping not to violate anything) can tell you that during that time, these legitimate characters have all spent a lot of time/ effort waiting for the spawn: Yale, Axion, Chase, Thizcord, Schump, Dirk Pitt, The Thief Lord, Villian, Jared, Schemp, Tom, Gollum, Hail Thief Hail, Invizable, Turmoil, Bonnie and Verragio. This list does not include folks that pop in/ out, these are characters played by people trying to play the game fairly. I don't know how many of them realize it's a waste of time due to a single cheater, but suspect that based on efforts, some may choose to play no longer if they knew the rest of the story. For EA/M to continue to turn a blind eye to it simply isn't "right."

[H2O]

If GM's did their job then it wouldn't be a certain afk,hidden,rabbit/rat/whatever form they choose to be in at that time,watching gloves in doom 24/7 for days on many shards until they spawn to get them. I have been trying to get something done about this going on 3 years now. Emailing who ever the current dev in charge falls on deaf ears,paging the so great GM's we have falls on deaf ears,and emailing anyone that will listen falls on deaf ears.

They just don't care and it shows. It is like they are supporting cheaters. I have been trying to get something done over this junk for going on 3 years and yet the cheaters keep on getting what they want due to the lack of GM support. Seems like after GM review after GM review and page after page and email after email they would at least look into it but, they don't care. Never have never will.

[Siteswap]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I won't be changing the Stratics rules because I understand and agree with the reason for those rules. Xalan Dementia is exactly right on the reason freeshards and script programs may not be discussed.
Xalan is also exactly right on the no naming policy.
It will not be changing.

Of course you wont be changing them! Your lord and masters at EA wouldnt approve.

[GarthGrey]

Originally Posted by Harb

I'll tell ya why it matters. I mentioned a scripting artifact thief above, that we've eyed for what, for almost 7 months now? I won't mention the name of the scripting character, but (crossing my fingers and hoping not to violate anything) can tell you that during that time, these legitimate characters have all spent a lot of time/ effort waiting for the spawn: Yale, Axion, Chase, Thizcord, Schump, Dirk Pitt, The Thief Lord, Villian, Jared, Schemp, Tom, Gollum, Hail Thief Hail, Invizable, Turmoil, Bonnie and Verragio. This list does not include folks that pop in/ out, these are characters played by people trying to play the game fairly. I don't know how many of them realize it's a waste of time due to a single cheater, but suspect that based on efforts, some may choose to play no longer if they knew the rest of the story. For EA/M to continue to turn a blind eye to it simply isn't "right."

I paged on the same thief scripter on LA for months at a time. It never did any good. Paging never does any good, talking about scripters on Stratics doesn't do any good.The people that are the guiltiest simply come here and post something ridiculous like "We don't script, we're just very good at doing this and doing that,and anyone can do it with a little bit of work and blah blah blah blah blah blah"...and they do it because they know the Devs/EA will read it and simply move on...it's a lost cause people. If you're not scripting, you might as well Join EM, cause you ain't gonna Beat Em....

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Busters

The gm's have been this way for how long and it is still being complained about? There are scripters everywhere, and always have been, it will never go away so you have to deal with it. Everyone has been dumped on at some point or another, it is part of playing with other people, there will always be those who take the easy way and those who do things the hard way. What i am saying is it will not change no matter how much you complain about it. The gm level of service has been down for quite some time and i doubt will get back to what it was long ago. My point is exactly what i stated before, i know you come here to unwind from the real world, but it is still just a game, if it is that upsetting that you don't get the level of care you think you should have then just quit.

i wont quit, but there are other aspects of this game i have not played which i will pursue, but is that acceptable? to let sctipers win

what is the point of having GM's then

i must say i would love to take up the role to help players that are stuck. from experiance i can say with some qualification that a friendly face is so comforting, and i just love the GM robes. i wouls love and would take pride is answering the call for help, if canned replies are all thats left what is the point of having a help options?

[Harb]

Originally Posted by H2O

... I have been trying to get something done about this going on 3 years now...

Doh, might as well pass on another true event, as it does show they action when they can. Same location, Doom painting, a thief running what appeared to be a UOA macro aided by a loop program. Whatever the guy (not mentioned in the list of 17 folks above) was doing, it wasn't particularly sophisticated. He'd attempt to steal targeting a spot, then hide, then repeat in identical time intervals. Went on one night from midnight until about 3 when I called it a night, then again the next night. 3d night consecutively, I paged a GM, and they were there literally in seconds. The guy stopped, and departed, never returning. So they will action what they can, I've seen it here and in several other events. As per the lenghty thread above, this is not a GM issue from what I can see - if they can, they do!

And Garth, yes this seems the same clown I saw on LA when checking it during the previous debacle.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by Harb

Doh, might as well pass on another true event, as it does show they action when they can. Same location, Doom painting, a thief running what appeared to be a UOA macro aided by a loop program. Whatever the guy (not mentioned in the list of 17 folks above) was doing, it wasn't particularly sophisticated. He'd attempt to steal targeting a spot, then hide, then repeat in identical time intervals. Went on one night from midnight until about 3 when I called it a night, then again the next night. 3d night consecutively, I paged a GM, and they were there literally in seconds. The guy stopped, and departed, never returning. So they will action what they can, I've seen it here and in several other events. As per the lenghty thread above, this is not a GM issue from what I can see - if they can, they do!

And Garth, yes this seems the same clown I saw on LA when checking it during the previous debacle.

If you really want to know what they do is they will bow every few mins to stay connected to the game with a alarm running to alert them when gloves spawn but, yet the untrained GM's we have can not/will not trace it. How I know this is they can get revealed by a dev of soul and killed and they will bow for hours on end until server goes down but, like I said the great GM's we have are too untrained to see this.

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

Just like to say, the GM's could post here IF EA allowed them too. But becuase of EA's stupid terms of employment (and overdeveloped sense of commericalism (sp)) they are prohibitied. I always thought Stratics was independant of the software houses but here time and time again Stratics and its staff prohibit naming and shaming useless EA staff members. So, when did Stratics get paid from the houses to enforce thier rules? Just a shame stratics is the unoffical offical forums for UO, somewhere with a bit of guts and dedication to the game would have been nice.

[/rant]

I am not going to get into an argument with a person that has an axe to grind for what ever their reason.....

Lets do the History Leason on UO Boards.

The first UO Board was Cross Roads of Brittania (although Stratics has always hosted the hoc's).

Guess what their policies was (as in they are now defunct). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Then came the Official UO Fourms AS IN THE ONE RAN BY UO.

Guess what their polices was (as in they are now defunct). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Then more or less Stratics picked up the ball, guess what the policies were then (pre petra). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Petra's version of uo.stratics is growing more and more as the place for UO. The reasons are her excelent stewardship of the boards (NOT to be confused with the moderation of the boards).

The policy of Not naming the individual player, GM's etc, is a time proven and excellent policy.

You can bank on this, IF GM's could come here and post about actions, CHAOS WOULD RAIN SUPREME.

What do you think they code the programs?

Design the Systems?

Create The ToS/Rules of UO conduct?

You may just want to back up a step or two and gain the perception they are AT MOST the enforcement agency of the ToS/Rules.

Above all, get a clue, Stratics is NOT the bad guy here and Petra is NOT THE ENEMY.

How many times have YOU read or wanted MORE UO DEVELOPER / CODER involvement on this board?

Ask your self this, If you were a Designer/Coder and a Fan Site consistently treated you as a piece of crap, turned everything into a flame war, belittled your employee's etc, would you REALLY GO THERE AND TRY TO POST CONSTRUCTIVELY?

[Shotgun]

Originally Posted by kelmo

Knock yourself out. We in the mean time, will play UO. If playing with pirates appeals to you... Watch your back.

i have played on freeshards for years and i am more worried about my EA accounts being hacked. i have had several friends who had their accounts hacked and EA did absolutely nothing. what does that say about your precious EA.


I also play uo (not the worthless EA) and i enjoy it more than ever. it has everything that uo should be and none of the bs that comes from EA. i better stop my rant now cuz im sure this post will ruffle some feathers.

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by EnigmaMaitreya

I am not going to get into an argument with a person that has an axe to grind for what ever their reason.....

Lets do the History Leason on UO Boards.

The first UO Board was Cross Roads of Brittania (although Stratics has always hosted the hoc's).

Guess what their policies was (as in they are now defunct). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Then came the Official UO Fourms AS IN THE ONE RAN BY UO.

Guess what their polices was (as in they are now defunct). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Then more or less Stratics picked up the ball, guess what the policies were then (pre petra). No naming of individual players, no naming of GM's.

Petra's version of uo.stratics is growing more and more as the place for UO. The reasons are her excelent stewardship of the boards (NOT to be confused with the moderation of the boards).

The policy of Not naming the individual player, GM's etc, is a time proven and excellent policy.

You can bank on this, IF GM's could come here and post about actions, CHAOS WOULD RAIN SUPREME.

What do you think they code the programs?

Design the Systems?

Create The ToS/Rules of UO conduct?

You may just want to back up a step or two and gain the perception they are AT MOST the enforcement agency of the ToS/Rules.

Above all, get a clue, Stratics is NOT the bad guy here and Petra is NOT THE ENEMY.

How many times have YOU read or wanted MORE UO DEVELOPER / CODER involvement on this board?

Ask your self this, If you were a Designer/Coder and a Fan Site consistently treated you as a piece of crap, turned everything into a flame war, belittled your employee's etc, would you REALLY GO THERE AND TRY TO POST CONSTRUCTIVELY?

Not going to get into an argument? Well bud, you just caused one...

Lets see what you've put here and I'll put some pointers in...

1, Naming the GM's... If its poor customer service.. then NAME THEM. Its called complaining something that EVERYONE has a right to do.
2, GM's used to post on here, they used to interact. Hell I'm in a guild that a GM is a member of... Cept EA stopped it all!
3, Do I think they code the programs? No, thats what a DEV is for. Thats what DEV's do. Not a GM... Figured you would have worked that out if you've been playing for so long.
4, UO ToS/Conduct.. no thats EA's work there.. always has been NOT the GM's. thats kinda the problem is you read though.. EA.. ya know.. Electronic Arts.. the corporate body that dosnt care a toss.
5, GM's just the enforcement agency? No they are the Customer Service agents of EA to aid, assist and enforce. You have a very limited scope on what GM's are...
6, Stratics should be independant, they are not. So for that in my eyes they are as bad as EA. Petra dosnt make the rules, she has to follow though what the bosses say. That I thought was obvious.
7, I dont think I have EVER trash talked the DEV team. In fact I dont think I've ever said a bad word about them. You should look into what people write first before you shoot your mouth off.

Let me clear something up for you shall I? Dev's put up with alot of stick for choices they have to make. They put in alot of work.. and often its above and beyond the call of duty. Do YOU know how it feels when the company you work for belittles YOUR work becuase of lack of training, lack of care and an ignorant attitide towards thier customer service?

Probably not as you havent the foresight to see what was actually posted. Take a look though what I said and then see how much of what you said was meaningless to me in that NONE of it was in reference to my posts.

Now in case its not clear to you I'll repeat in simple terms my gripe...

The lack and care to attention of the Customer Servce of not only the GM's but the CSR's of EA altogether. As I said before... minial input maximum profit is what they go for.

So tell me... How much in relation to what you said is what I said? hmm?

Well?

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

I won't be changing the Stratics rules because I understand and agree with the reason for those rules. Xalan Dementia is exactly right on the reason freeshards and script programs may not be discussed.
Xalan is also exactly right on the no naming policy.
It will not be changing.

Not being funny Petra, but you dont have the authority to do so anyway.

Simularly, where did I say about discussing the Freeshards and script programs? My gripe is about GM's, lack of customer care and the inability to effectively discuss it with others whom have shared the same lack of Customer Service.

[GarthGrey]

It's my personal opinion that if you can't post a bad GMs name,you shouldn't be able to praise a good GMs name either. If they can't be here to post, then they can't be here to read....so what's it matter? IBTL btw...

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

....
So tell me... How much in relation to what you said is what I said?....

In a word EVERYTHING but I am confident you CAN NOT agree because you have your head in a place were your unable to see anything but your own blind rage/hatred etc.

You have a good day now ranting about your conspiracy of how everyone is out to get you.

[ElRay]

OH LOOKIE GEE!!!

Yet another thread about cheats/hacking that will be ignored by the devs.

Another day in the glorious land of cheating.

What a bunch of

[Harb]

Again, we're not really arguing good v. bad GMs, we're really speaking about policy and enforcement. In the days when we had dedicated full time GMs, yes some did post, and many of us had GMs we liked more than others. Seems to me that's all part of history now, and has been for some time. The ones we have today, IMO, are all "good" within their "limits," which today seem more tightly controlled than ever before!

[GarthGrey]

I have 27 canned email responses on my pages regarding the latest LA Resource Factory. This guy(s) is not that good of a scripter, because I can disrupt it rather easily. Which means it more than likely has no GM alarm written in to it, which means that 27 times, a GM has failed to even bother to investigate it. The only time EA has ever done anything publicly, is after a HUGE thread is created here, and where we all practically do the work for them. Or has everyone already forgotten the big thread where we all were giving the coordinates of our shards Factories??

[Salivern_Diago]

Originally Posted by EnigmaMaitreya

In a word EVERYTHING but I am confident you CAN NOT agree because you have your head in a place were your unable to see anything but your own blind rage/hatred etc.

You have a good day now ranting about your conspiracy of how everyone is out to get you.

Err yeah alright, shame you cant read what I said but.. whatever you say man... whatever you say...

[tjalle]

Originally Posted by GarthGrey

The only time EA has ever done anything publicly, is after a HUGE thread is created here, and where we all practically do the work for them. Or has everyone already forgotten the big thread where we all were giving the coordinates of our shards Factories??

I remember the Painted Cave/Ice Fiend gold scripters. Nothing was done until we made threads about them here if I´m not mistaken.

Haven´t seen those chars on Europa since then...

[Salivern_Diago]

Aye I remember that lol. Used to be a daily sport to go and annoy them...

Then got the sob story about gold farming so that he could feed his kids... Didnt know weather to feel bad or not :-s

[Voluptuous]

Welp. I camp heavily. Have done so for years and years. I'm prob one of the stupid ones that run around manually reading every stupid sign using 6 runebooks to make the job "easier" and mark 2 runes for every one I find.

My friend gets the second runes and if I'm not around to time them, then she does. We both seen every sort of camper there is.

And here's my summing up of finding the fall times...

a) people recall in and out, checking on all their greatlys in rotation (not cheaters)

b) people sit at a greatly invisable (for the most part, not cheating unless they continue to sit there long after fall time has been achieved)

c) invisable rabbits, wolves, etc (why the hell hide as an animal? cheater scripter that doesn't want his name reported continously)

d) ghosts (in Tram, again really no reason to do so, so cheater)
(in Fel...well I'll give em the benefit of a doubt so 50/50)

REALLY, ok sure all you friggin people who cry and moan maybe they were too lazy to rez, really know how to get times, wah wah wah...sure. If i took your maybes into consideration that'd explain away like 2% of these guys.

THE REST ARE SCRIPTERS. THEY ARE. ACCEPT IT. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[Lord Gabriel]

Obviously I am not a moderator, and if this has be posted already please forgive me, but mods have repeated over and over on these boards that this is not the best way to get a response to problems. When there is a problem with a Gm, mod or em, your best course of action is through e-mail or pms to Mods or Chrissy. It has been seen over and over that threads like these either get ignored or locked. I can fully understand your frustration which is why I personally have avoided IDOCS. However to get a proper response and or action, follow through with the proper channels. Just my 2 cents which probably isn't even worth that much.

[Widow Maker]

The "proper channels" do NOT work and never have.

Personally, I strongly believe that public outing of bad service GM's..along with names...is going to be the ONLY way to ever get Mythic to increase their customer service parameters.

[Viper09]

Originally Posted by Widow Maker

The "proper channels" do NOT work and never have.

You know this how?

Just because we don't find out how our feedback is received doesn't mean it doesn't affect anything.

[G.v.P]

Originally Posted by Siteswap

Of course you wont be changing them! Your lord and masters at EA wouldnt approve.

Let me ask you something, Siteswap, say Stratics allowed multiple people to use your unique nickname ID, "Siteswap." They would post under your name, could use the same avatar as you, and other than post count and profile, which could also be copied fairly easy, people would have no way to discern whether the posts were authored by you or the other people using what was once your unique name. Would you be pleased by that?

I think it's fair to say no one would like to experience identity theft much like no one would want their copyrighted game engine to be emulated and reverse engineered by unsigned third parties.

[G.v.P]

Originally Posted by Demonous

why do GMs do literally nothing as opposed to years ago? i remember when they would suspend people for scamming and would just come down to talk sometimes and stick around a bit, they actually used to help people, now not only do they never show themselves but 90% of the time they send an automated response

I remember back in the day when you saw a GM it was like seeing Santa Claus, people formed a line and began wishing. Beta testing is still sort of familiar to the old way, since you are in contact with the game makers and GMs in game, although I don't think I've seen that classic red death robe since long before ML, when a GM came to help place a forge at Delucia although with a character that had short gray hair and a blue t-shirt rather than the old garb.

GMs have helped me a lot over the years without showing up, from silly things like picking up a bag that fell through my old small marble (before object handles, if you dropped an item the wrong way it would go under the house, haha) to most recently helping me delete some slime hunter quest basins that serve no function now. There are definitely good GMs left out there, and as others have said, use the reporting tool when you encounter bad service.

[jack flash uk]

Originally Posted by Voluptuous

Welp. I camp heavily. Have done so for years and years. I'm prob one of the stupid ones that run around manually reading every stupid sign using 6 runebooks to make the job "easier" and mark 2 runes for every one I find.

My friend gets the second runes and if I'm not around to time them, then she does. We both seen every sort of camper there is.

And here's my summing up of finding the fall times...

a) people recall in and out, checking on all their greatlys in rotation (not cheaters)

b) people sit at a greatly invisable (for the most part, not cheating unless they continue to sit there long after fall time has been achieved)

c) invisable rabbits, wolves, etc (why the hell hide as an animal? cheater scripter that doesn't want his name reported continously)

d) ghosts (in Tram, again really no reason to do so, so cheater)
(in Fel...well I'll give em the benefit of a doubt so 50/50)

REALLY, ok sure all you friggin people who cry and moan maybe they were too lazy to rez, really know how to get times, wah wah wah...sure. If i took your maybes into consideration that'd explain away like 2% of these guys.

THE REST ARE SCRIPTERS. THEY ARE. ACCEPT IT. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

thank you , i was hoping you would stop by and add something, and i was not disappointed

[Petra Fyde]

Originally Posted by G.v.P

Let me ask you something, Siteswap, say Stratics allowed multiple people to use your unique nickname ID, "Siteswap." They would post under your name, could use the same avatar as you, and other than post count and profile, which could also be copied fairly easy, people would have no way to discern whether the posts were authored by you or the other people using what was once your unique name. Would you be pleased by that?

I think it's fair to say no one would like to experience identity theft much like no one would want their copyrighted game engine to be emulated and reverse engineered by unsigned third parties.

Oh, they don't have to go that far, they just have to post 'Siteswap is a scammer, he scammed me out of a castle'. By the 'rule' ammendment advocated here that should be allowed, totally regardless of whether there's any truth in it, or whether the 'Siteswap' who may, in fact, be guilty of the offence, is a character of another player on a totally different shard who just happens to have the same name.

There are good reasons for the rule as it stands, it doesn't just apply to naming GM's it applies to posters too - naming them and accusing them of wrong doing or incompetence is a personal attack.

And contrary to the belief of some posters, as Managing Editor of UO.Stratics I can, and have, change a rule or introduce a new one if the team as a whole agree that it is necessary - please read the announcement at the head of the board.

[Salivern_Diago]

Ok ok, in short my time in this thread is almost done.

However I stil dont see why Stratics will not allow us the chance to post the name of a GM so we know that they are a 'bad apple'. Personal attacks is one thing, but as I said working in the customer service industry puts you in the limelight and yes if your a crap CSR then it should be known. Then at lest others have the liberty to say "Hang on, I dont want to go via this guy" and ask for someone else.

Maybe its just the way we do things in the UK, I dont know but I do find it limiting in not knowing who to avoid.

@ Widow Maker -

Mythic dosnt have direct (or any) control over the CSR department. Its an EA Department that Mythic have to use. I'm sure that the DEV's are frustrated with the CSR's at times as I posted earlier. There is nothing worse than working your ass off to produce something great but then have the customer service dept screw it up.

And to those who dont get what I'm trying to say... I dont like the fact we cant find out publically who's a crap CSR on here and I dont like the fact that the CSR's/GM's are not as good a they used to be. Its something that needs to be addressed but its also soething the EA Corporate Machine will NOT look at cos its not 'cost effective' and people will just lump it with what they've got.

[Siteswap]

Originally Posted by Petra Fyde

Oh, they don't have to go that far, they just have to post 'Siteswap is a scammer, he scammed me out of a castle'. By the 'rule' ammendment advocated here that should be allowed, totally regardless of whether there's any truth in it, or whether the 'Siteswap' who may, in fact, be guilty of the offence, is a character of another player on a totally different shard who just happens to have the same name.

Post it. I couldnt care lerss. I'll just reply with "prove it".

On a similar note, if EA only allowed unique in game names then this wouldnt really be a problem. But they are too lazy to even do that.

[Bobar]

Originally Posted by Voluptuous

Welp. I camp heavily. Have done so for years and years. I'm prob one of the stupid ones that run around manually reading every stupid sign using 6 runebooks to make the job "easier" and mark 2 runes for every one I find.

My friend gets the second runes and if I'm not around to time them, then she does. We both seen every sort of camper there is.

And here's my summing up of finding the fall times...

a) people recall in and out, checking on all their greatlys in rotation (not cheaters)

b) people sit at a greatly invisable (for the most part, not cheating unless they continue to sit there long after fall time has been achieved)

c) invisable rabbits, wolves, etc (why the hell hide as an animal? cheater scripter that doesn't want his name reported continously)

d) ghosts (in Tram, again really no reason to do so, so cheater)
(in Fel...well I'll give em the benefit of a doubt so 50/50)

REALLY, ok sure all you friggin people who cry and moan maybe they were too lazy to rez, really know how to get times, wah wah wah...sure. If i took your maybes into consideration that'd explain away like 2% of these guys.

THE REST ARE SCRIPTERS. THEY ARE. ACCEPT IT. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Yep my experiences are the same - I'm with you.

[In Flames]

Originally Posted by jack flash uk

Your right, not everyone is cheating, but we know the tell tale signs, as do pvp speedhackers, or pot throwers etc

Stop.

If you're so savvy, then why do you make your blanket statements about pot throwers. I'm pretty sure there have been atleast 100 threads here on stratics on how to make that macro in UOA.

Srsly.

Carry on.

(For the record, I don't toss em, but I have done so in the past as a PvP Alchy out of sheer boredom. Was a nice change in pace.)

[kittykat]

Originally Posted by Salivern_Diago

Ok ok, in short my time in this thread is almost done.

However I stil dont see why Stratics will not allow us the chance to post the name of a GM so we know that they are a 'bad apple'. Personal attacks is one thing, but as I said working in the customer service industry puts you in the limelight and yes if your a crap CSR then it should be known. Then at lest others have the liberty to say "Hang on, I dont want to go via this guy" and ask for someone else.

Maybe its just the way we do things in the UK, I dont know but I do find it limiting in not knowing who to avoid.

@ Widow Maker -

Mythic dosnt have direct (or any) control over the CSR department. Its an EA Department that Mythic have to use. I'm sure that the DEV's are frustrated with the CSR's at times as I posted earlier. There is nothing worse than working your ass off to produce something great but then have the customer service dept screw it up.

And to those who dont get what I'm trying to say... I dont like the fact we cant find out publically who's a crap CSR on here and I dont like the fact that the CSR's/GM's are not as good a they used to be. Its something that needs to be addressed but its also soething the EA Corporate Machine will NOT look at cos its not 'cost effective' and people will just lump it with what they've got.

What difference would it make if you knew a GM was bad? Unless I'm mistaken, you can't say to a GM "I don't want to deal with you, send me another GM instead." I guess you could ask for a superior, but honestly, shouldn't you at least give the person a chance to resolve your issue before you assume they won't? If there is a crappy GM, *not* doing his job, and the complaints pour in through the proper channels, where it can be investigated properly, then that GM would be handled - but some random people posting on a random board somewhere isn't going to help to that end. Heck, your posting accounts aren't even tied to your ingame accounts, how in the world can there be any accountabilty for what *you* post about the GM? All it does is open up a way for the person to, most usually, get unduly trashed.

The fact is, many times GMs are labeled terrible, or not doing their job, when in fact they've done their job. Either you just don't see it, or it didn't meet your expectations, but the chances are quite likely that it was the only thing they could do. For example, an item you lost isn't returned to you - you are upset, you say the GM sucked - when the policy is not to return items, a decision made by EA, not the GM just doing his job as he's only allowed to do so. Another example is this thread here. There is no way to know that the GMs *didn't* look into the scripter - but perhaps he had a sophisticated enough script to answer GMs when they talk to him, or he's got some alert that brings him to the computer as soon as someone shows up, etc etc. The GMs have very strict guidelines on exactly when they can ban for scripting, and they can't deviate outside those lines, even on a *feeling*. They probably get just as frustrated as players do because their hands are so tied. So in this case, the GM, if named, would be needlessly trashed when he almost certainly did his job. It's just not right.

You're fighting the wrong fight here. It's not the GMs that are at fault, it's those that make the desicions on what can and can't be done by the GMs - that's who you need to rail to and against.

[Tazar]

Originally Posted by Siteswap

On a similar note, if EA only allowed unique in game names then this wouldnt really be a problem. But they are too lazy to even do that.

rofl... It's way way way too late for UO to take that route now. That decision would have to have been made 12+ years ago. They can't take established characters that are prominent on many shards and suddenly force a name change because someone on another shard has the same name.

[Siteswap]

Originally Posted by Tazar

rofl... It's way way way too late for UO to take that route now. That decision would have to have been made 12+ years ago. They can't take established characters that are prominent on many shards and suddenly force a name change because someone on another shard has the same name.

So ... If you had a sheep pen with 1000 sheep in it and it didnt have a gate on, what would you do when 50 of the sheep escaped? Would you just say "oh well ... "It's way way way too late" to do anything about it ... in which case even more sheep escape. Or would you have a gate fitted?

EA just leaves the gate open on this one im afraid when they could implement this at ANY time they chose ... its not really difficult to do. It doesnt get your sheep back ... but it stops any more slipping out.

Soooo ... your excuse is weak. Yes EA should have done it 8, 10, 12 years ago ... but better late than never.